80 replies to this topic

[Fallen Angels95]

Touch yourself then contemplate suicide... Well then...

Breaking lore is stupid but sometimes it must be done....in Matt Wards case however it shouldn't of happened.

[Thugren]

Ok lets get a few facts straight here.

Magnus the red is the most powerful psionic Point blank period. He halted chaotic mutation alone , he ripped open web ways, he shrouded a planet in a mist so think the thousand sons couldn't see it coming.

For one grey knight to even think they can stand against the master of the warp is ludicrous.


Secondly


Moratarion- the most feared an immovable primarchs the warp could spit up beaten by a chapter master.... Let me be clear here, that is the most Mary Sue shit I've heard.

Space marines have a hard enough time fighting typhus, how in the hell could they survive the aura of death that engulfs the toughest primarch to ever swing a scythe?

Another example

Grey knight omnibus- the daemon saint of the cathedral took out justo card, terminators an most of what wa thrown at it before it was taken down .

How can you barely take down a greater daemon and at anther point in the lore take down the most brutal close combat monstrosity ever to stand on two hooves ( angron)


In closing , grey knights though interesting have been matt warded, that is why most people pull miniatures off the table is they see those silver bastards being put on the field

[Authrix]

Taking out Angron at the cost of an entire Brotherhood of Super elite super soldiers trained specifically to deal with it? Fair enough. Draigo should never have happened.

And the Purifiers are just a testament to Ward's terrible fluff. How can something described as "Incorruptible" then have a subsection of guys that are even more incorruptible? Well, they can't. Incorruptible is a superlative. You cannot be "more incorruptible" - you either are incorruptible, or you aren't.

[dx144]

Possible do it at the same time and do some Erotic asphyxiation... Basically what lore breaking causes...

[ICE JARL (bjorn_ironskull)]

Well......
To make the grey knights wage war against the sky warriors, would take a considerable act of treason; since the two have a mutral respect for one another, after the first war of armageddon.

I believe that each one would cancell the other out; the gk with their psychic skill and advanced weaponry, and the wolves with their tenacity, skill and nunbers.

Trying to use chapter masters, who have battled primarchs isn't a great way to muster a chapter's strength. Ok draigo got past the death shroud, pinned mortarion down and carved his name in his back. Bjorn the fellhanded beat magnus the red. Neither killed their opponents.

In short. The wolves and knights would fight each other to a standstill. To call in allies, there are those in the inquisition who may just come to the aid of the wolves; the order of the wounded heart, for example, after only one small grey hunter pack (7wolves, one of which was still a blood claw) aided them in defeating a nurgle host (with a plague champion). Also, the thirteenth great company (a heresy sized chaper force. And so bigger than the gk) would come rushing out of the warp to aid their brothers. Arguably, this may be considered the wolf time. Anyone who knows space wolves. Knows what that means, and that would massively tip the balance to the wolves.)
But this war would never happen. The wolves are fiercely loyal to the emperor, even hunting their own kin (the wolf brothers chapter (2nd founding)), at the disbandment of their chapter. The gk are "incorruptible". The argument is invalid, this war could never happen.

[JC 042]

I used to have Grey Knights, but I sold them all with the new codex and simply kept my Inquisitors and Daemon Hosts (They were fucking beast in the last codex!).

I have no idea if I will ever play table top again though. I'd more likely simply stick to painting what I have and developing skills in painting. And it all depends if there's a decent Games Workshop where I'm going for Uni.

Where I live had one of the best stores in the UK! It was second largest store with 3 massive display tables and 4 equal sized gaming tables, each one big enough to play 8K points on them. And my favourite part was the 12 painting stools. Unfortunately now they only have 2 gaming tables, 2 display, and 6 stools. It was all over some bullshit there wasn't enough staff for the size of the store to meet EU laws about having a certain number of staff per area of store... So the halved the fucking store... :'(

That's when I stopped playing, around the time 6 ed was released and Matt Ward let loose another wave of bullshit and GW legal team was having fun suing small authors...

[dx144]

Still Grey Knights are broken and break the lore at almost every turn they get...

[JC 042]

Still Grey Knights are broken and break the lore at almost every turn they get...

It is funny reading fa/tg/uys rage about it though

[Fallen Angels95]

I agree with Bjorn. They would cancel one another out like I had said previously. As for the Magnus thing, I said that it'd take the strongest in the chapter to even rival him. I never said win.

Space Marines on a whole are OP as fuck. Grey Knights are just that wee bit extra.
Matt Ward FUCKED SHIT UP. They should've given me the codex to wright. At least it'd of been plausible.

I don't think it'd be considered the wolf time because the GK and SW have clashed before and though if this battle ever began, which it wouldn't, it probably wouldn't mean the end of the Imperium. It could as the chapters that already question the Wolves would leap at the chance to deal with them etc so it could lead to another heresy with neither side being traitorous. Just really fucked up.

The 13th company wouldn't come...they didn't come when the Thousand Sons invaded Fenris why would they come for 1000 super astartes?

Draigo is really, really, really OP. It is like he is the living embodiment of a saint (which technically speaking he is but that's besides my point). Okay he cannot be corrupted, okay you fucked over a primarch but to be able to do all this and more is OP.

Bjorn the Fell Handed is also OP. He is a venerable dreadnought correct? Now I have read and seen dreadnoughts be blown to smithereens by greater demons or overwhelmed by ork forces, to be corroded away by tyranid bio-weapons or to be lanced by necron gauss tech.

But to take the most powerful demon prince of Tzeentch and emerge virtually unscathed is fucking OP. Draigo suffered heavy damage against the Deathshroud and Mortarion

[JC 042]

I reckon Matt Ward is making Space Marines as powerful as they are meant to be (kinda) and are just mega nerfing everything else in comparison.

[Draco Ny'ade]

But, Bjorn's Dreadnought was built by Leman Russ himself and he has the ward of the Primarch, a basically impenetrable shield, Yes in fluff he is OP but he is not Draigo, that guy is the embodiment of Lorebreaking

[Authrix]

Draigo just outright should not exist. He's so super special that he can survive in the warp without giving a crap.

Ships using the Warp to travel need a Gellar field or they die. This goes for any craft. But Draigo? Nope, he can just walk through without a problem. And this kind of crap is all over the codex. Ward's terrible writing butchered the Grey Knights, as it did the Necrons. The fact that these codexes have been consistently OP upon release, and in some cases further, to the point that certain builds mean an auto loss of the opponent, only proves my point further.

I don't like the wolves. But what Matt Ward has done to the GKs... it would be a mercy to have them destroyed.
Because then the Inquisition would step in to clean up the wolves after. Double win!

[palin2004]

Wow, reading this thread hurts. Personally I believe the GK are pretty powerful, however they would be on par with the Thousand Sons sorcs, but Magnus (if he wasnt all sad bout the emperor) would do the same thing he did fighting the wolves on Prospero...just look at them and they would die, such is his psychic might. Also, matt ward needs to be strung up by his thumbs for his fan fiction he writes. Back on topic, GK vs Space puppies. GK would be approx 1.5 a normal SM, since they only number a thousand and the SW have 13 grand companies (1000 each), SW would send another lore breaking SM (Blackmane) and forget the GK ever existed.

[ICE JARL (bjorn_ironskull)]

Fellhand was nearly destroyed by magnus atop the fang. They both went over the edge. He had to be recovered, and his dreadnought repaired extensively.
The wolves wouldn't just send blackmane, even he cannot take on bthat many grey knights.
A great company is roughly 100-500 strong, but each is different, and so it is hard to put a ball park figure on it. The 13th, however, are over 1000 strong, because they are a great crusade/ heresy era formation.

[palin2004]

I didnt just mean 1 Space Wolf, I meant send Blackmanes Great Company, maybe with 2 or 3 others and walk away.

[JC 042]

Lore wise the Space Wolves were made to destroy Legions, a small chapter is no problem.

[Fallen Angels95]

The Grey Knights were made to deal with demons tbh and are so equipped for just that. Though a formidable for against the forces of Chaos, they'd be no more than an extremely tough fight for a normal Space Marine.

The SW weren't made to destroy chapters.. It is what they became. 
If we break it down to one Space Wolf vs one Grey Knight...no ranks no amazing shiny shit etc then it would be a tough fight.

Both are astartes so are super-human.
Both are incredibly strong
Grey Knights have the advantage of psychic powers
Space Wolves have a slight strength advantage

[CruciasNZ]

Fellhand was nearly destroyed by magnus atop the fang. They both went over the edge. He had to be recovered, and his dreadnought repaired extensively.

Laughing his arse off the whole way down and through the recovery. Good book that.

Cannot find the lore reference for you, but the Canis Helix predates the GK and Inquisition and is one of the accepted mutations as per The Emperors decree (along with Astropaths and Navigators). The All Father was present during the first transformation ceremony after all, the one which gave him his two wolves (two of his closed friends sucumbed but their loyalty and love for Russ kept them sentient). The GK nor the Inqusition have no mandate to touch the Wolves on this subject, though it would not stop a few nutjob Inquisitors from trying.

The Blood Angel mutation however does NOT have a sanction, so the fluff about them hiding it is correct. Somewhere along the line someone butchered the SW fluff

[JC 042]

Both are astartes so are super-human.
Both are incredibly strong
Grey Knights have the advantage of psychic powers
Space Wolves have a slight strength advantage

Space Wolves also have the advantage of how many wards they put on their armour against psychics.

[Emperors Saint]

I think the space wolves would win on some planet but the knights would if they get in orbit of the fang cause they will just destroy it from space but if they landed the space wolves would fuck shit up, also the Dark angels would win they have the rock and as far as I know nether group has a spaceship stronger then it although I could be wrong they might have and if they boarded the rock they have a sleeping lion ready to awaken in the time of need