26 replies to this topic

[dx144]

Yeah this thread is going to have spoilers about the Elder Scrolls Games.

 

Talos, one of the Divines or just a glorified man?

 

Personally I think Talos must be a Divine, Oblivion proves it when you need to open the portal to Paradise one of the required items is the blood of a Divine and to do this the Hero of Kvatch get Tiber Septim's armour which has some of his blood on. 

 

I mean the only people in the Elder Scrolls who contest Talos being a Divine is the High Elves who are just upset about their apparent immortality being lost.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has an opposing view to Talos' Divinity. 

 

Another question - Who did you support or would support in the Civil War of Skyrim?

 

I think the Stormcloaks should be the winners of Skyrim's Civil War. They have just been treated unfairly most other races in Tamriel. They were betrayed by the Empire after fighting so hard to protect it, High Elves who in the Civil War of Skyrim have taken people away from their homes just because they see Talos as a Divine, Snow Elves who massacred the Nords when they were "Expanding too fast" and Dark Elves who just see themselves as superior to all other races including Elves. 

 

Now the best people to rule Skyrim would be the Nords as they know the land best. General Tullis who basically represents the Imperials if you do play Skyrim and go through the Civil War storyline then you realise he is an ignorant *CENSORED* who doesn't know the slightest bit about Nords and doesn't seem to respect them. This is shown through his quotes like "Now go to wherever it is you Nords go when you die" and "You damn Nords and your honour". Now if you were in control of the Province of Morrowind and you didn't know the Dark Elves worshiped some Daedra or know about the Dark Elves' history and mythology then how and why should they be put in control of the Province. 

 

The Stormcloaks are usually seen as racists but the Dark Elves are known to be highly arrogant and dislike all other races seeing them as inferior so it is possible that the Dark Elves isolated themselves instead of just being forced into an area of Windhelm. Now that being said yes some of the Stormcloaks are probably racists that think other races are inferior, that is proven from a Bolund who says "I can't believe we let provincials like you wander Skyrim." but that is a minority in comparison to others. 

 

The Empire isn't exactly the Paragon in this situation. Their heavy handed dealing with finding Ulfric was that they could have kept on moving into Tamriel but instead stopped in Helgen and killing innocents (Dragonborn and Lokir) who they had no evidence were involved. This included people who weren't dressed in Stormcloak armour with the rest of Stormcloaks who are wearing the armour.  This shows that the Empire is quite reckless and unfair in their dealing with the Rebellion. They try to be better than the Stormcloaks but they are willing to not even hear Ulfric out or the Stormcloaks there but instead kill them. If they are that willing to kill Ulfric without hearing his reasons for starting the war then the Empire basically deserves to burn.

 

Possibly the main reason why the Stormcloaks should win is because they are the birthplace of the Empire and most of Humanity (Most as the Redguards come from a different part of Nirn). As the Empire is willing to throw away their birthplace, history and even their Gods just because someone told them too. The Empire took the White-Gold Concordat that was apparently the exact same offer the High Elves offered the Emperor before the Great War began.

 

For the Emperor to carry on the legacy of previous Emperors mostly the Septims who were original Nords and the Nords are known for being fearless about death and that being a coward (And as a way of saving yourself you sell out a People who helped defend you.)

 

The Emperor did the exact same to the Redguards who were told to accept the Thalmor and then give large amount of their land the Redguards refused and the Empire removed them from the Empire. The Redguards became independent and the managed to beat the Thalmor. The Emperor could have kept the fight going on as the Thalmor were suffering just like the Empire was.

 

The Stormcloaks don't want to spread a belief that Man is superior to Mer but that the Nords can believe what they want, live how they want and that they can rule their own lands without another group of people forcing their beliefs on them.

 

So yeah anyone have any opposing views or am I making this thread for the purpose of making a thread?

[JC 042]

1. Talos is a divine, and most elves did/ would still worship him as one if it wasn't from the threatening Aldmeri Dominion. Would you admit your faith is Judaism if you were living in Germany during the holocaust? I see it as a similar case here. We already know the Dominion hunted down everyone who fled Summerset Isles and etc who were seeking asylum (you know this by talking to a Legion commander who is Altmer). The Aldmeri Dominion doesn't care whether Talos is a divine or not, they just outlawed it in the Empire specifically to add fuel to start the war in Skyrim, Urlfric being their sleeper agent/manipulated puppet to be the spark to start the fire. All to weaken the Empire so that their ultimate victory has far less significant losses on their side.

2. Neither, as aiding either side supported the goals of Aldmeri Dominion. Instead I went around killing every single one of the Aldmeri Dominion I could in Skyrim

[dx144]

Well if there was a quick ending to the Civil War then Skyrim or the Empire could recover quicker.

 

If you need to learn some of the Lore about the Elder Scrolls or Fallout I recommend Shoddy Cast on Youtube.

[JC 042]

If you need to learn some of the Lore about the Elder Scrolls or Fallout I recommend Shoddy Cast on Youtube.

Nah, I just figure it all out myself.

[dx144]

Well I didn't know that much about the lore before Oblivion so it was insightful. Now I know a bit more about the Dunmer history and significant events such as Battle at Red Mountain. Next Lore episode will be lore about Daedric prince Molag-Bal who is probably the worst Daedric prince....

[JC 042]

Daedric prince Molag-Bal who is probably the worst Daedric prince....

No no no. JYGALAG is the worst, have you seen him at parties? He's worser than Mehrunes! And Mehrunes is NOT good at parties!

[dx144]

Well Jyggalag is/was actually one of the strongest Daedric Princes. The reason why he SPOILER! became Sheogorath was because he was so powerful that the other Daedric Princes were threatened so they did a massive disgrace to Jyggalag by making the Daedric prince of Order become one with the Daedric Prince of Madness.

 

And stop quoting Sheogorath! I also learnt that in the Second Era Molag-Bal attempted to invade Tamriel, he failed obviously.

 

This video gives a rundown on all the Daedric Princes.

[An_A10_Pilot]

That was quite an informative video DX.

 

As for Your questions in your OP, here is my skyrim experience as well as how I feel.

To start it off, Talos is a divine, the Elves are merely using the denial of that to throw flames on the powder keg of Tamriel.

 

Skryim is my first Elder Scrolls game. But being me I nosedived into the Lore of the series. But I actually did it through reading the books in game. I figured that with the effort they put into actually writing in books might as well read them. It was quite informative to read books from both Windhelm and Solitude. The differences in opinon as well as the bias was evident in both sides. The book that Influenced my thinking the most was a book specifically about the White-Gold concordat. To read of the fighting and bloodshed on both sides was incredible. But in the end the Empire turned its back on what it was founded on.

 

 

The Empire moved too far away from its Nord roots, so that is why Ulfric's rebellion could be justified. Unfortunately his rebellion does weaken the Empire and if Skyrim were to separate, it would be a crippling blow. But to what exactly? A failing empire that is too corrupt to actually act in a way to unite humanity against the Machination of the Aldmeri Dominion. After doing several playthroughs of the game it reveals several key things in the rebellion that go to the rebel's advantage. First, they hold among the most advantageously postioned and easiest to defend settlements in Skryim. Most are situated near mountains. The native land support is another huge boon to the rebellion. Another is desertion. After the White-Gold Concordat, most of the empires new recruits are Nords to replenish their ranks, but I would see that if even half of the Nords serving in the military left, the Empire would be fatally crippled. 

In addition to that, I could see Ulfric possibly trying to work with the Red Guards. Yes, he is recist towards elves, and a little supremist for nords, but when I did a playthrough as a red guard, Ulfric and the Stormcloaks seemed to have no problems working with Redguards. In the Empire held cities, the difference was massive. The empire soldiers while not actively hostile will make a lot of provocative comments towards reguards. I may or may not have wiped Markarth from the map a few times in fits of fury in response to several streams of idiocy from empire soldiers.... but that's what saves profiles are there for right? So I could definitely see Ulfric allying with the Red Guards. Down the line it is possible that an alliance of Skyrim and Reguards could burn the ashes of Empire and start a new, more unified one. 

 

So I see it ending  up that the Stormcloaks win and that Talos becomes worshipped in Skyrim once again. 

Edited by An_A10_Pilot, 14 April 2014 - 03:25 AM.

[dx144]

Some of the books are quite extensive but all of them could be complete bullshit. Its a way they can cover their own arses if they make a game in Black Marsh and a book describes something and there is no or little evidence of it then it could just be said that book was biased towards which ever race wrote it. Only things that are considered real lore that is unchallengeable is Elder Scrolls because they are fragments of time and things that are experienced in games. This will raise more question if they make Elder Scrolls VI because the Civil War in Skyrim will make a massive change in Tamriel's history.

 

I've read a few books but I don't really read much when I'm in game. One of them I read was about Ulfric's retaking of Markarth. It wasn't hailing Ulfric as a hero but more that he was a monster killing innocents. Such as any Nord who didn't assist with the killing of the Forsworn was then killed for not assisting and that the Forsworn ruled peacefully for two years and were attempting to gain acknowledgement of the Reach becoming its own province of the Empire. This was written by an Imperial. 

 

Well in the Lore of the High Elves they were apparently once Immortal as there was no concept of Death and that they believe they were deceived into losing their immortality by Lorkhan who is believe to have created Man, the fact that Talos became a divine to them is seen as Talos becoming Lorkhan who many Elves hate.

 

Humans see life a gift that is to be enjoyed while many Elves see life as a curse that needs to be overcome to regain Immortality. Basically Elves are upset and they see Humans as the enemy and because Talos is seen as Lorkhan is a kind of insult that he is treated as a God.

 

I don't see how The Thalmor would be able to attack Skyrim though. They would have to come through the Sea of Ghosts which is known to be one of the worst seas to sail through or go to Falkreath which would cause them to go through Hammerfell which could cause another war with the Redguards or go through Morrowind but that could cause many Thalmor soldiers to choke on the ash that still litters Morrowind. In twenty or thirty years I would think Skyrim in control of the Stormcloaks would make it one of the strongest parts of Tamriel. That is depending on what the Empire does in the follow years of their removal from Skyrim. 

[dx144]

New questions.

 

1. Which City within Skyrim is the best? (Looks best, has best quests and has the most notable and awesome characters)

 

I would have to say Markarth because its possibly the most well preserved Dwemer ruin since its an entire city that is above ground and isn't crumbling, the quest where you have to go to Jail who kill every guard in Markarth until you go to jail is quite fun. I remember FUS RO DAHing about 6 guards off of one of the high up ledges, eventually killed them all and I could finally go back to doing what I wanted to do which was buy some fucking Alchemy ingedients... Also going to kill that big ass spider in the Dwemer ruin was fun because of the further on ruin to clear out which has those journals. 

 

It also just looks so much more different to the other cities as it isn't really a gloomy area and its just a brighter area. Only annoyance is the amount of fucking Forsworn roaming around. No matter how many times I kill them they always come back. You would think they would get the message after the second time the Nords beat the shit out of you to just stay down but no the Dragonborn needs to come over and shout at you after Talos shout at them then Ulfric shouted at them. If you can't tell I'm no fan of the Forsworn...

 

2. Which Daedric Prince is best?

 

I would have to say the best Daedric Prince would have to be Jyggalag. Just because he's the Prince that has destroyed the Shivering Isles multiple times and he was so powerful he made every other Daedric Prince shit themselves. He might not be creative but sure as hell gets things done.

 

Its kind of upsetting he doesn't appear in Skyrim. I mean he is now free back in his own realm of Oblivion so he should in theory be able to communicate with Mundus just like all of the other Daedric Princes. I mean Meridia hates that the Undead are in Mundus but Jyggalag doesn't care that there is Chaos all over Skyrim. I mean in the Second Era Jyggalag was still Sheogorath so he couldn't go and try to bring Order to Tamriel but now he's free. I mean no one knows of his existence in Tamriel but at sometime no one knew of Sheogorath or Mehrunes Dagon. All it would take is Jyggalag to give visions to a group of individuals so they become worshippers of him and his let's say vision and he would start to regain his power in Mundus.

 

 

I think he could be quite popular with many people in the Empire. Man is being torn apart and the Empire is in Chaos and ever since the end of the Septims they have been wanting someone to properly reunite Tamriel as its been splintering ever since the Oblivion Crisis or even before that. So having a Daedric Prince who can bring order to Tamriel would possible be seen as one of the better Daedric Princes like Meridia as she hates everything that is unlife/undead. Makes it slightly strange when you're a Vampire or Vampire Lord completing her quest in Skyrim..

 

Hopefully if they release another Elder Scrolls they have Jyggalag as one of the Daedric Princes you can communicate with... 

[JC 042]

1. Probably would be Winterhold before it got nom'd by Azura.

[dx144]

Well it did sound great as it was apparently able to rival Windhelm and Solitude but all I've seen is a Collage and some house with a Jarl who is upset he has nothing left except a few house in his hold... Oh and how mages decided to destroy Winterhold because yeah mages.

[JC 042]

Oh and how mages decided to destroy Winterhold because yeah mages.

Half of that is Azura's fault, mages were just the ones to piss her off

[dx144]

I didn't know Azura decided to destroy most of Winterhold. I knew she got angry with the Dumner or at that time the Chimer and turn them into the Dunmer.

 

Is there a real good reason why Azura destroyed Winterhold or was it "Whatever, whatever I do what I want."

[JC 042]

I didn't know Azura decided to destroy most of Winterhold. I knew she got angry with the Dumner or at that time the Chimer and turn them into the Dunmer.
 
Is there a real good reason why Azura destroyed Winterhold or was it "Whatever, whatever I do what I want."

Winterhold was destroyed by her star turning black, you know, so that Mage could immortalise himself inside of it.

[dx144]

Oh right. I didn't know that had caused it. Then again I have only completed Azura's Daedric quest once or twice as I'm not really a massive fan of Azura and I didn't really pay much attention either...

 

I prefer pissing off Azura and keeping the Star Black so that I always have a Black Soul gem rather than a white which can be filled with a petty or common much better to have a grand.

 

So yeah mages did cause the destruction of Winterhold... If that mage wasn't obsessed with living forever then Winterhold would have remained... Still Winterhold did look like it would have been a fun place.

[An_A10_Pilot]

Hmmm. Well which one is my favorite is a tough question. I do know which one Id annihilate first though. I hate the city of Markarth. If I could in Skyrim, I'd level it, and then just turn it into one giant archeological dig site. 

 

As for favorite, I do enjoy White run quite a bit. It may not be the biggest city but its central location makes it an excellent trading hub. Its has one of the highest population growth rates in Skryim and if something were to befall Solitude, it would have the highest. 

[dx144]

Ah don't take my feelings of Markarth of being my favourite city as I like the people that inhabit it. Most of them seem like dicks. I just really like the scenery. So all of the people are dead in part while the Dragonborn just looks off into the distant landscape.

 

Another fun quest is Nameria's where you eat the priest of Arkay... Also turning into a werewolf in the Prison/Mine killing all of those Forsworn idiots. 

 

Whiterun is more a melting pot area. Similar amounts of Pro-Empire and Anti-Empire people. It usually is the first city people go to because when I first got Skyrim I followed the main story until I killed that the first Dragon you meet and I think the first person I talked to in Whiterun was the Battle-Born who asks if you're Battle-Born or Grey-Mane. I think the leader/head of the Grey-Manes who takes over the city if you side with the Stormcloaks is a dick.

 

Would have been funny if the Dragonborn made his own fight for Skyrim and fought both Stormcloak and Empire.

"Dragonborn who do you support here Stormcloaks or the Empire?" Ask Ulfric.

"I don't support either of them" Responded the Dragonborn.

"Very good, Dragonborn. You're staying true to the Way of the Voice." Spoke Angir

"Fuck that! I'm going to be the new High King of Skyrim!" Laughed the Dragonborn who then stabbed them all and shouted them off of the Throat of the World. Paarthurnax watched but didn't really care.

[JC 042]

So yeah mages did cause the destruction of Winterhold... If that mage wasn't obsessed with living forever then Winterhold would have remained... Still Winterhold did look like it would have been a fun place.

If you wanna be technical about it the guy who caused all of it was perma banned from the college, I think a few of his followers were still part of the college which is probably why he was able to get in to that underground area (the niben?) to perform the ritual to make it a black star.

So yeah the Jarl is kinda wrong when he sais it's all the College's fault.

Also were you able to find all the collectables quest items in the Thieves Guild quest line? Like the ship in a bottle, queen bee statue, stuff like that.

[dx144]

I found some of them. I don't like sneaking. I wear Daedric Armour with either a two handed sword or a one handed sword. Yes I like hitting things.

 

I think I got the Queen Bee statue and the ship and a Dwemer Puzzle Box but I don't think I really got any other ones. Unless you count Left and Right Eye of the Falmer as a collectable as you can sell it to the Thieves Guild.

 

I did notice I did more fighting in the Thieves Guild's missions rather than Companions and Dark Brotherhood as you're supposed to sneak through lots of enemies. I took that as kill them, kill them all...