79 replies to this topic

[Authrix]

Just want to point out the Matt Ward no longer works at GW.

[JC 042]

Just want to point out the Matt Ward no longer works at GW.

Holy shit!

I even googled it and 1d4 confirmed!

Maybe there's hope for GW yet...

[Authrix]

Nope. Still got Phil "Wolfwolfwolfman" Kelly and Robin "I can't balance a codex for shit" Cruddace.

 

Sigh.

[ebonybrotherhood]

Phil Kelly is a great guy, what are you talking about? He does not do balancing to well, but can write fluff like a champ.

[Authrix]

4th Ed Eldar.

5th Ed Space Wolves.

6th Ed Eldar.

6th Ed Chaos Marines.

[ebonybrotherhood]

Most of the codex's you listed are quite good, except the space wolf ones, because he is bad at writing them for some reason (most likely because they suck huehuehue), and he has issues with 'internal balancing' meaning that while the codex as a whole is not OP but not terrible, there is always one useless unit and one absurdly good one (HELDRAKE). Also he is obsessed with random tables. Who knows why, but it fits most of the codex's he writes perfectly.

 

Edit: Only just saw the 4th edition Eldar you mentioned, which had issues with vehicles and 'power creep', which was not Kelloggs fault because they made him change things and add stuff he did not want to.  

Edited by ebonybrotherhood, 14 August 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[Authrix]

"Damn Kelloggs, stealing our Skimmers" - Tom Kirby, CEO.

 

That last point is rather open for speculation. But ok. Ignoring the OP skimmers the first time round, we had:

 

The utterly USELESS 6th Ed CSM codex, aside from the Heldrake. That codex brought more rage from both players and opponents than any other, due to the duality of its terribad balance (Sorry, Warp Talons? Mutilators? I see our Thousand sons and Khorne Beserkers still suck, but at least Noise marines aren't that overcosted any more, right...? Oh they are? Ok then.)

 

6th Ed Eldar. At first the pseudo better-than-the-actual-thing rending was irritating, but then people found Wave Serpents made better MBTs than, y'know... actual MBTs. Not to mention the entire codex (almost) is very powerful for little relative cost, and... yeah. You would have thought Kelly would have learned from his first mistake with skimmers, but hey. Shame on me I guess.

 

5th Ed Space Wolves. Not only was the fluff terrible (Deep Sea Space Hulk I see. The obligatory Wolf lord on Thunderwolf wearing the Wolf tail talisman wielding wolf claws leading a pack of Fenrisian Wolves - which, by the way, could be aspirants that failed the implant process and thereby mutated into the wolves. But hey, whatever. We can totally just ride these things, because that's cool), to the horribly balanced book. Long fangs that are objectively better than Devastators fr markedly less points, Tac marines that are better than actual Tac marines. And 5th Ed Chaos marines, as it happens. Counter attack, Bolt pistol, close combat weapon and Bolter? For less than a Tac marine? Why thank you Mr K!

 

As a Chaos Marine player, Kelly is no better than Ward or Cruddance.

[ebonybrotherhood]

I also play chaos marines, and while some stuff is just not worth getting ie. warp talons and mutilators, and not to mention WHY ARE THE TZEENTCHIAN POWERS SO BAD. But many of the new additions were cool like cultists (finally) and whatever the dual minigun dinosaur thing was called. Also the fluff changes were some of the best things he could of ever done to chaos space marines, like making abbadon not be a armless failure and actually making the daemon primarch's do things. Now all we need is doomrider and MORE IRON WARRIORS and we are set.

[CruciasNZ]

I think the newest SM codex should be added to that list. It killed off my not-very-fluffy infiltrating devastators behind your tanks with Multi-Melta tactic

[Authrix]

Ebony: No, the Chaos Marine book was a step sideways on the road to suck town. Where are our cult Terminators? Legion specific rules?

The 3.5 book was the best CSM book, aside from the OP Iron Warriors builds. In comparison, far better than having to rely on a single unit to accomplish anything.

 

Cru: Raven Guard got boned in the current SM codex. Your only real options are drop pod assault with Meltaguns/ combi meltas or Rhino rush.

[Draco Ny'ade]

Trust me Authrix the Chaos codex when used by Ebony is actually quite versatile, as Punchy McPunch-Punch will testify

[ebonybrotherhood]

I agree completely with saying 3.5 is the best edition, and I never said that 6th was the best, far from it, but the fluff is really good. Perhaps not the best, but helped make the black legion cool again. And yeah, I want Legion specific rules, I want to play my favourite Legion and feel like its diffrent to everyone else, but 6th edition is a step in the right direction, unlike 4th and 5th. 

[CruciasNZ]

Cru: Raven Guard got boned in the current SM codex. Your only real options are drop pod assault with Meltaguns/ combi meltas or Rhino rush.

Yeah, it's why I am selling off all my w40k models and moving fully to Warmachine. Can't be bothered buying new models for the third year in a row to bandaid my army that their changes has made impotent

[JC 042]

Yeah, it's why I am selling off all my w40k models and moving fully to Warmachine. Can't be bothered buying new models for the third year in a row to bandaid my army that their changes has made impotent

It's almost as if they planned this all along......

[CruciasNZ]

It's almost as if they planned this all along......

Yeah, they only got the value of one Stormtalon out of me. I have now spent almost $800 on Warmachine combined (Game, Models, Painting, Supplies, Rulebooks etc). So it didn't work very well for GW

[MetalHead666X]

I liked Warped Talons as an alternative to Raptors. They can be fun.

Though the rest of the CSM stuff is a bit dull. Bar the Heldrake or the Forgefiends.

[An_A10_Pilot]

Sheesh reading all this makes me glad I've only given 230 dollars total to GW!

[Authrix]

Trust me Authrix the Chaos codex when used by Ebony is actually quite versatile, as Punchy McPunch-Punch will testify

Which is why all the best CSM lists minimised troops and maximised Heldrakes.

It's a horrible codex. Anecdotal evidence is hardly solid evidence.

 

I have no doubt it can work in a casual environment, but when you're playing in a WAAC environment, bringing that book without Black Legion Supplement is a death sentence.

 

Regardless, GW isn't getting money off me. 2nd hand Ebay is it now. Even if I could afford GW prices, I wouldn't want to.

Edited by Authrix, 14 August 2014 - 09:19 PM.

[Authrix]

Ok, so the release of the "new" GK codex revealed a combined box of ten grey knights (aka two five man strike squad boxes) for a discount. 

But, it was GW, so I was a little sceptical. I decided to run the numbers over on Dakka.

 

I built my GK army about two years back. Literally nothing has changed in the 5 man boxes (surprisingly; I expected an increase in price). The ten man box is, granted, about £5 cheaper. 

So, consider that you might build an army entirely from scratch. You want a big one for this, a lot of GKs. You buy three ten man boxes. 

 

You've saved: £15. Ok. Not bad on paper. 

 

You've spent: £112.50. Hmm. Not so good. Because that's just troop choices. 

 

Now, let's assume you're buying transports. A fair assumption, right? Rhinos are always nice. Two Rhinos: £50. 

 

What about some Elites? A squad of Terminators, because that makes sense. £28. 

 

Of course, we're forgetting or HQ. Now I'll go out on a limb and assume We're using either the Brother Captain or Crowe: £11 

 

Throw in the codex too: £30. 

 

So, we have our 3-6 Troop choices, Two transports, some Terminators and a HQ. Great, we can OBSec, and we have everything we need to play the game. 

 

That'll be £231.50, vs 246.50 

 

But hey, we saved £15   . 

 

Ok, you can cut down the amount you buy. Do you really need 30 Grey Knight bodies? Let's assume two boxes will do. Our total is now £194, with a £10 saving. That's, what, just over 5% off? 

 

Worth it... right? 

 

My point is, OP is right, and would still have been right two years ago. Consider what you get above: an army with transports for the basic units with no real build in mind, no massive units or real play makers. No AA or real anti-armour. For just under £200, they have a solid(ish) start. A total of 28 models. And a book. 

 

But it's all alright, because it's not as expensive as it could have been. 

 

I mean, it's your money at the end of the day... 

 

Edit: Oh, if someone could run the final numbers in dollars, that would be cool too. Might bump things into perspective for some of our friends across the pond. 

 

If you're in Oz, I'm so sorry.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[An_A10_Pilot]

My buddy who plays grey knights is refusing to accept the new codex, as it screws him over. He's actually considering just repainting all is grey knights stuff as space marines. This new codex is pants on head retarded. It removes all the inquisition stuff and any flavor of the Grey knights.

It quite makes me glad that I play orks and that they left my codex largely the same.