92 replies to this topic

[Lord Commander Archael]

I get it man, I do but IIRC even in 2nd Edition they were being hailed as the Chapter that all others aspired to be and that both their Chapter Master and Librarian were "the best". It goes back a long way man but can't recall if Ward had anything to do with Codex Space Marine or not as I no longer have any of my old books/games

[Domine Nox]

Codex: Space Marine is 3rd Edition. 2nd Edition were these:





Yes, that's right. Dark Angels and Blood Angels were the same codex.

[Gerhart]

Wow the art work has come a crazy loNg way since then!

[Domine Nox]

Here are the ENTIRE fluff blurbs for important people in these codecies.

Marneus Calgar

Your Ultramarines army may e led by Marneus Calgar, the Master of the Ultramarines and Lord of Macragge. Marneus Calgar is the venerable Master of his Chapter, renowned through the Imperium as the victor of the First Tyrannic Wars. He has made a particular study of Tyranids and is accounted the greatest expert in the Imperium on the fighting methods of these weird aliens.

Tigurius

Your Ultramarins army may include Chief Librarian Tigurius as a Librarian. Tigurius has fought in many long and arduous campaigns, and has risen to become the leader of all the Ultramarines' Librarians. He is one of the few survivors of the Ork attack on Boros and one of those who witnessed the most recent appearance of the Legion of the Damned during the fighting there.

Mephiston

Any lood Angels army may include Mephiston as Chief Librarian. Mephiston was originally known as Brother Calistarius. In this incarnation he was a Blood Angels Librarian of some ability and exceptional strength of character. None the less, when fighting as part of the relief force for Hades Hive during the Armageddon campaign he ecame a victim of the Red Thirst. Inducted into the Death Company, he took part in the assault on the Ecclesorium building, and was one of the many trapped inside when the building collapsed during the battle.

For seven days and seven nights Calistarius lay trapped in the rubble, teetering on the edge of death and madness. But somehow, rather than succumbing to the Red Thirst, he managed to conquer it. By sheer strength of will he was able to suppress and hold in check the feelings of rage and the deisre for blood, and in so doing he became something far more than he had been before. On the seventh night, at midnight, he burst free from his rocky tomb, reborn as Chief Librarian Mephiston, the Lord of Death.

Mephiston is a figure of awe and reverence to the other Blood Angels. Many see him as the spiritual son of Sanguinius, and as a savious in these times of war. He is also a figure of hope, for if he was able to defeat the Red Thirst then there is always a chance that others may do so as well, if only they have sufficient strength of will.

Dante

Any Blood Angels army may include Commander Dante. Commander Dante is one of the most experienced and able Space Marine Commanders. In no small part this is due to the quite extraordinary longevity of the Blood Angels, which has meant that he has ruled the Chapter for over 1,100 years. He is held in awe by the leaders of most other Chapters, who can remember him being a famous Commander when they were still in the Scout Company. Because of his reputation, which it came to choosing a leader for the Armageddon intervention, the Masters of the other two Chapters taking part (the Ultramarines and the Salamanders) unanimously asked for him to be placed in command.

As a leader Dante is utterly fearless, and full of drive and initiative. If his opponents ever make a mistake Dante is on it like a flash, and he always exploits thier error to the full. He has a reputation for leading from the front and can usually be found where the battle is fiercest, plummeting from the skies at the head of his personal bodyguard, a halo of power playing around his head.

So looking back at this, I would say the Ultramarines were not heralded as "the greatest" as these segments show bias towards the Blood Angels. I'm only using the Blood Angels as the counter example at present. The Dark Angels guys have a fair bit of fluff for them too. I didn't want to make this super long though. So all of the Ultramarine 'bias' that everyone quotes is a recent development.

[Gerhart]

There's gotta be someone to hate so why not the "face.". I have no ill feelings to any of the loyalist chapters, never quite understood most of the Ultra hate but to each his own.

You must remember, vamps, werewolves, and guys in fancy robes = super cool

[JC 042]

The reason we hate Ultramarines is Matt Ward, the reason we dont hate everything else is because he butt rapes all the fluff to his choosing. Which is, to make the Ultramarines look better than everyone else, while everyone else suffers. In the new BA codex theres plenty of examples showing known defeats which makes any chapter reasonable. Every defeat ever recorded of the Ultramarines has been completely purged by Matt Ward, just as long as its within his reach, and the stuff that was defeats he makes out the Ultramarines to have still come out on top... 
So its Matt Wards favouritism that we hate Ultrasmurfs.

[Domine Nox]

So he purged their being overrun by Tyranids and losing most of their numbers and almost all of their suits of terminator armor because their 1st company fought to hold the space port so people could escape?

Recognising that the Tyranid invasion of Ultra mar is but the
first of many yet to occur, Commander Dante sends three
companies of Blood Angels to assist the Ultramarines in
scouring the remaining beasts from the eastern sectors.
Upon their return three years later, the three companies
are much reduced in number, but wealthy in invaluable
Tyranid-hunting doctrines that are swiftly passed on to the
rest of the Chapter.

From the RECENT Blood Angels codex. They bail the Ultramarines out.

Although Astramael needed
only to defend the Fortress Monastery long enough for
reinforcements to arrive from orbit. such was the fury with
which he prosecuted the brief, but bloody, campaign, there
were precious few Orks remaining when the first
Storm ravens landed.

And now the whooped Orks when they didn't have to.

Captain Zorael leads strike force Bloodhawk against
insurrectionist rebels on Golgotha. Taking to their Land
Raiders, the Blood Angels form an armoured column and
smash through the outer fortress walls. Trapped behind their
own defences, the rebels are swiftly overwhelmed by Zorael's
Storm raven Gunships.

Looks like another Blood Angels win.

The Blood Drinkers Chapter come to the aid of the Cadian
35th as they lay siege to the Daemon-infested hive world of
Helios Alpha. The Blood Drinkers' ferocious assault swiftly
breaks the stalemate, although the high incidence of
collateral damage amongst the Guardsmen fighting
alongside the Blood Drinkers leaves Cadian High Command
decidedly hesitant to accept the Chapter's aid again.

Blood Angels successor chapter with definite victory.

Nonetheless, deft manoeuvres by Fleet Captain Bellerophon
bring the mighty vessel's main batteries to bear on the
greenskin fleet. obliterating the flagship and half a dozen
support vessels in a single salvo. Meanwhile, the furious
counterassault by Bloodcalle(s crew sweeps the Ork
boarding parties from the Battle Barge's decks and carries
the fight into the Kroozers. Though it takes a year for the
Bloodcaller to limp to the Imperial Fleet repair docks at
Haringvleet, it does so proudly bearing the scars of a great
victory won against incredible odds.

Win against overwhelming odds....

So where are these wins and losses you're talking about? Seems to me the Blood Angels are owning all and even aiding the Ultramarines after they got owned....

[Gerhart]

You wont win this debate Nox, even though I agree with you. Such is the hate of the fanboys .

[CotW]

It is the one quote about all Chapters aspiring to be Ultramarines that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Combine that with a couple editions of being posters boys and you will have lots of pop culture hate. The fact that their background is really cool outside of the stupid Matt Ward Codex but is never really mentioned anyway up front makes them seem mary sue and two dimensional even if they are not.

I hate Matt Ward Ultramarines, not the real ones! Of course I also hate Matt Ward BA and GK too...

[Optic20]

Then im sure it burned quite a few you when the protagonist of space marine happened to be a Ultramarine

[Crimson Marine]

After watching the animated film featuring the ultramarines I had the same feeling of lame. But 'know no fear' brought them back from the cheese and now I quite like them. They were the first army I ever did back in 3ed, so I say bring on the 13th.

Sent via my personal Astropath

[Optic20]

After watching the animated film featuring the ultramarines I had the same feeling of lame. But 'know no fear' brought them back from the cheese and now I quite like them.

I own that movie - i thought the same.

[JC 042]

To be fair that movie could be nothing but shit, Ive had that oppinion the moment it was teased, its unlikely a change in chapters would affect how terrible it was, well its unlikely to anyway.

[Optic20]

The animation wasnt the best - but i took it for what it was...
That being said ive watched it one time and i dont see me watching it anytime soon.

[JC 042]

I watched it once, then watched the entire Resident Evil series to erase it from my mind.

[CotW]

After watching the animated film featuring the ultramarines I had the same feeling of lame. But 'know no fear' brought them back from the cheese and now I quite like them.

I own that movie - i thought the same.

Yeah what a waste of money. My only happy thought about the purchase was that maybe it will help spur on a real movie producer to take on the IP.

[Crimson Marine]

Seems that when ever a 40k space marine film of sorts are made, the characters voices and lines make it so s**t there is no chance of anyone outside of the fanbase giving it anymore than 2 minutes viewing lol.
The next company to do a film needs to read a BL book and take it as an example.
I listen to the audiobooks on my comutes to and from work, and I don't find them cheesy at all.

Sent via my personal Astropath

[Ork Slayer117]

I agree, but I liked the Imperial Fists in it. It sucked lore wise as well, (since when did a Crozius be able to do that?) The fact that 12 took on a entire Black Legin Warband is stupid. Nest were going to have Cadians but-fucking Demons -.-

[JC 042]

"oh look, a whole company of Imperial Fists have been slaughtered... One UltraSmurf command squad saves the day!"

[NightWolf889]

WTB Imperial Guard movie, preferably Gaunt's Ghosts.