29 replies to this topic

[Fuzzy]

I have a suggestion for future tourneys:

A team MUST be able to field a full 8 man team of their own guys to enter. It really is shitty when a chapter can only field a 5 man team against a team that had practised for ages as a full 8 man team for afew to be told that they can't play even when they have put in the effort just as much. For example when I was in the Wolves we played the World Eaters in the DLC tourney, they fielded afew of their guys but needed to be re-enforced by the Alpha Legion. I was under the impression that at the time we were to face the World Eaters, not World Eaters and friends.

I compleatly understand that some chapters/war bands cannot do this down to time differences and so long as that is the ONLY reason I do think an exception should be made but there are afew groups on here that have never fielded a full 8 made of purely their own guys since they started and its stupid. Why enter a tourney if you cannot commit a full team?

Just a suggestion based on my own personal opinion. Constructive criticism is more then welcome.

[Commander Mongo]

Yeah this new tourney idea seems intriguing. I just hope that on this tourney there are no restrictive rules and perks on so that if someone faces a team they face that team rather then attempting to be cheap and put the other team at a disadvantage. Also I think on this one a team shouldn't be allowed to play unless they can field a full 8. In my eyes if you can't provide a full team of YOUR OWN members you shouldn't be entering a tourney.

[Fuzzy]

Thank you for copying this over Mongo. Much appreciated.

[Commander Mongo]

Also I think on this one a team shouldn't be allowed to play unless they can field a full 8. In my eyes if you can't provide a full team of YOUR OWN members you shouldn't be entering a tourney.

Not all groups can physically do that. Say a group with most members in the UK challenge a group where most members are New Zealand, it's impossible to get a time and date where everyone would be online at the same time. Not without one team having to play at something stupid like 3 AM.

[JC 042]

It's impossible for some groups to pull out 8 people on the same time, even if they were to message all 20 or so members the chance of 8 people being awake, not at work, or simply not occupied for them to play a game is extremely slim.

As said its unfair to enforce such a rule when huge groups like the Dark Angels won't even have a problem with it, when smaller groups like the Word Eaters or Black Legion will no longer even be allowed to enter tournaments at all.

[CruciasNZ]

It's site policy that minimum game requirement is and always will be 5 players. It's the minimum founding requirement for factions and it quite often all some of the smaller factions can field due to work, inactivity, illness - the list goes on.

Big chapters may have more members but they are equivalent, in terms of importance, as small chapters. This policy will only be changed in the event that some new game requires more than 5 people a team to start a game, at the moment I know of no such game.

The DLC tournament had a rule saying merc'ing was not allowed from memory, so they should not have been able to do that. Field 5 or concede. The advantage of big chapters is you have more people to put into a game; that's also they're curse - I repeatedly see big chapters field their top guys and the back benchers get to just look on with envy. I think we should allow multiple squads per chapter again, and discourage A-Teams in some way (encourage deploying the best players amongst multiple squads so everyone has a chance therefore everyone has fun)

Note: I split off the junk posts in the other thread because this one supersedes them

[Fuzzy]

How's about this for the discouragement of A-teams:

A chapter posts a list of all it's active members, (for example the DA have over 60 but only around 20 are active) and the team that the chapter uses in each game of the tourney is randomised by the site moderators. This will give every active member a shot at playing and do away with A-teams. 

It's impossible for some groups to pull out 8 people on the same time, even if they were to message all 20 or so members the chance of 8 people being awake, not at work, or simply not occupied for them to play a game is extremely slim.

As said its unfair to enforce such a rule when huge groups like the Dark Angels won't even have a problem with it, when smaller groups like the Word Eaters or Black Legion will no longer even be allowed to enter tournaments at all.

Then what is the point in them existing if they can't even field a full team at all? Why should another team have to suffer just because another can never pledge as many members. As I have already said afew times some groups on here have NEVER ONCE put out a full 8. What is the point in them even existing?

[Authrix]

Because factions are a social group within Gothic, and not merely a means to the end of playing, though that is a function of them. The point of them existing is so these people can play together in a faction - be it 5 people or 500 people. 5 people is the minimum size needed for a team to play, so a chapter of five people is perfectly legitimate, as Crucias said.

[JC 042]

Then what is the point in them existing if they can't even field a full team at all? Why should another team have to suffer just because another can never pledge as many members. As I have already said afew times some groups on here have NEVER ONCE put out a full 8. What is the point in them even existing?

Then that would mean we kill off 10 whole factions from the site! And not to mention it would be impossible for new factions to be created.

[Fuzzy]

I was meaning in terms of what is the point of them existing competitively. If they cannot field a full team then why bother? It just seems stupid to me.

[JC 042]

Then how is that gonna help with them recruiting? It's like saying join our group and not be allowed to play any competitive games. Then at that rate it'll kill off all the smaller groups. As I said its unfair on smaller groups and is only benefiting larger ones by killing them off.

[Fuzzy]

The smaller groups have enough to field 8. They just need to be active. I haven't even seen or heard from any of the black legion in ages and the world eaters hardly make an appearance much. The Imperial fists are practically non existent on SM and the GK, Ultramarines and Salamanders are no where to be seen lately. The Templars recently tried to come back to life but that spark seems to have died. The smaller chapters are practically dead anyway. I play SM every single day without fail and I have hardly seen a trace of any of the groups I just mentioned. Maybe things are different for you over on the PS3 but on the 360 these groups are pretty much extinct anyway.

[dx144]

Simple. If recruits join a smaller group it will mean if they join that group and they are active they can be involved in lots of chapter matches. That is the enticement to play with the group.

The problem with the larger groups is they have so many players if they want to keep people interested they involve people in chapter matches so lots of people can play.

If every time people have a match they have to kick people out so it is fair teams then people will feel excluded and eventually not see much point in being part of that chapter or Warband or Clan.

You could get a few mercs to join but then it isn't that team is it whatever team is playing and others.

For friendlies that is fine as it isn't really important and its is for fun. Or should be for fun.

In a Tournament though.... You are supposed to field your team. If you cannot get a larger enough team then you shouldn't be able to call upon those who aren't in your group as it is a tournament not a friendly. Still try to have fun in those games as it is just a game at the end of the day.

If a team says they will field an 8 then comes up with less than an 8 why should the people who turned up be turned away because of the other team not showing up for whatever reason?

It is a really twaty feeling telling someone they aren't needed for this match. Whenever I have to ask if someone doesn't want to play this match I feel like I am excluding a member from playing which isn't fair to them who ever it might be.

Even when the Night Lords have people not on because of Real Life we don't care if there is four or five or six of us we still play the enemy with their eight if they are ok with having an advantage.

We come to play and we aren't going to be dicks about it saying that the other team should lose members because some of ours didn't show. It is our fault for not having the members on but they are justified for a reason but that doesn't make it ok for people on the other team to leave without a match.

I think there should be a compromise somewhere that supports both sides....

Just my opinion.....

[SpecSlaughter22]

the only reason there is a 5 team min is for the smaller chapters. that being said bigger chapters can use 5 as well. shit happens in life so they cant make it. now if someone finds out their using that priviledge to their advantage that should be investigated. if thats the case the alleged team should be halted from progressing in the tourney until its solved.

people shouldnt be doing this anyways. every chapter should be foghting to theor fullest potential. Accept defeat when youve been defeated and go back to the drawing board.

[xxxblackspider]

The only way to successfully ensure constant teams of 8 is to enforce a maximum size for a chapter (say 20 people, 2 teams of 8 and 4 backups) so that the excess players will go form their own teams or join small chapters... but that will never happen because it will harm the community

[BANEofDAEMONS]

y not have different tournaments based on the size of the chapter. You can have a 5 player tournament and a 8 player tournament that way the smaller chapters get to play and the bigger chapters get to play and that also allows the people in the bigger chapters who would miss out on matches get a chance to play if u only are allowed to participate in one or the other. What i mean by that is if your allready slotted to play in the 8 player tournament then u cant play in the 5 player tournament and vice versa

[CruciasNZ]

Unless specifically allowed in a tournaments rules, mercing is illegal and even if the other team allow it on the day the team doing it automatically concedes anyway.

If you want an 8 person minimum SM tournament, it will be multi-chapter orientated eg each squad must have no more than 1 of the same chapter etc etc. That sort of stuff is fair on the whole community.

Remember that tournaments take months to run and a lot to organize. You can play 8 person minimum friendly games anytime you want; the tournaments are designed to accommodate the greater chunk of factions, not the faction with the greatest chunk of members

[BANEofDAEMONS]

ok im confused crucias what do u mean by If you want an 8 person minimum SM tournament, it will be multi-chapter orientated eg each squad must have no more than 1 of the same chapter etc etc.? Do u mean that a chapter may only be allowed to have 1 team in a tournament?

[CruciasNZ]

Do u mean that a chapter may only be allowed to have 1 team in a tournament?

I was giving an example that a squad consists of 8 players, each player must be from a DIFFERENT chapter.

Note that this is not a tournament, and might never happen, it was just a convenient way of explaining something

[BANEofDAEMONS]

ok maybe im stupid but im still confused how does a tournament normally run?